It is a huge privilege for my amateurish humble site to have a really interesting interview with him. My most heartfelt thanks to Bill for answering my questions through E Mail.
More pictures at the bottom of the interview
[Aneworderfan] Q: How did it happen you were called to work with Peter Saville?
[Holding] A: We had been working for a few years as designers, specialising in 3D computer generated visuals, although up to that point it had been working for the large part in furniture and product design.
However Peter was speaking to Tom Dixon (creative director of Habitat and longstanding client of ours, and friend of his), about exploring a more three-dimensional way approach to graphic design, and so Tom passed on our details.
The first project Peter wanted to work on with us, was a design for the cover for a greatest hits collection for the band Pulp. Although the artwork we created was successful, in the end a different approach seemed more appropriate, so that one never saw the light of day, but at least it meant that we saw all kinds of possibilities for future projects.
Q: What was the original concept for the packaging of Crystal?
A: The idea Peter originally had for the Crystal CD single, was to make the whole thing crystal clear, including the CD (except where the metal layer of music is printed). The case was also left clear, with no inlay, and the only graphic element added was the red bar across the front (as per the rest of the covers for 'Get Ready'.
This was referencing the coloured bars etc that you get across glass doors in airports etc, so that you don't walk into them.
Unfortunately due to the usual record label time and budget restrictions it never saw the light of day, until Peter got us to visualise it for his book, which you can see it in.
Q: Can you tell us about your tribute to Unknown Pleasures on the cover of the book 'Designed By Peter Saville'?
A: This idea was one I had in the back of my mind for some time. As a longstanding New Order / Joy Division fan, I had always seen the cover of the Unknown Pleasures album as a kind of landscape, as I am sure many people had, and I had the urge to explore it as such.
I worked from the original lines so that it was faithful to the original, and using 3D software manipulated them to become a surface following those contours.
Rather than the sharp angles of the original, I wanted to soften the form a bit more, so that it felt more retrospective and less harsh. Looking back at Joy Division, there is an obvious sadness because of what happened to Ian, so I was looking for something more peaceful, and that is why it was rendered in a soft white, almost like snow dunes.
Anyway, once I had finished off the artwork I sent it over to Peter, as an example of the kind of things we could do with his ideas, and it was simply a case of perfect timing, that he had got it as he was trying to work out what to use for the cover or his book. Basically he was looking for something that summed up his whole career (not an easy thing to do!), and I had happened to send him an image of his first album cover, done in a contemporary way, so he requested its use as the book cover.
Needless to say as a fan of both the identity of Factory, as well as the music, this was a tremendous privilege, especially as Peter IS the graphic identity of Factory. Together we started to explore the possibilities even further, and there were also alternate versions of the landscape which I created, including using the 3D wireframe mesh, to produce an actual sculptured section, directly from the file. This and an alternate black version of the cover art can be seen on the site of Paul Stolper's gallery.
This album will always be one of my favourites, because it got it all so right, both with the music, and the packaging. It is as close to an example of perfection as you could hope for, so to get the endorsement from Peter which my tribute, was a real high point in my career. As a result of this we then went to work on a couple of other pieces for his exhibition at the design museum, which were included to demonstrate that the show included everything right up to his current ideas, which weren't even completed yet.
Q: Who chose, for the cover of Singles, to work on the leaf which originally appeared on the sleeve of the True Faith single, and why?
A: It was Peter and Howard who came up with the idea of reworking the leaf, and I think Howard had suggested that they get us (Morph) to play around with some ideas.
I am guessing that the leaf was chosen, because of the scope for further exploration it offered, as well as the fact that it was an iconic single cover from the mid-point in the career of New Order.
I think that the leaf has also taken on an almost mythical status now, mainly because it still exists in an almost perfect condition, kept carefully in a box. It even saw the light of day again at the design museum show, and I kind of liked the fact that something so fragile, managed to survive, which really appealed to me in a sentimental way. I guess that is thing about Peter, he really cares about what he does, and his motivation is often far from financial, which was kind of the ideal behind Factory itself.
Q: What's your idea behind the re-working of the leaf?
A: Initially, we were asked by Howard to computer model the leaf, and explore it as if it was made from different materials, such as gold, glass, silver etc, but just really to see where it took us.
To computer model a leaf (of which we only had photographs to reference, as the leaf itself was out of the country), was pretty tricky, and luckily I had taken some photos of it myself when it was on show. Anyhow, it was made all the more difficult, because I really wanted to get it as close as possible to the original, as we had done with Unknown Pleasures.
Anyway, once we had created the 3D computer model, we could then start exploring textures, and material finishes etc, and we could even view the leaf from alternate angles, but as we wanted it to clearly reference the original True Faith cover, we decided that an identical shot would be best.
As I experimented, I thought that it would be a nice form to explore in wire-frame, which then started to take on additional meanings. I think Peter and Howard saw this as well, which is why they said go with that one.
For me, I wanted to reference more than just True Faith, as after all, this is a singles collection, so I thought it would be nice to include some more subtle references, rather than just the obvious one.
The mesh version stood out to me because of the 'Everything's Gone Green' B side, called 'Mesh', which I thought would be a nice subtle reference for older fans, and an echo of the original wire-like Unknown Pleasures cover, because after all, how can you forget that New Order was born from Joy Division.
On a personal note, I really can't stand Coldplay, and saw it as insulting that such a band had totally ripped off the Blue Monday 12" for the graphics on their last album (X&Y), so I thought I would have made a reference to their second album (A Rush Of Blood To The Head) cover artwork, which was of a wireframe head (I actually quite like that cover, shame about the content).
There is also something which emphasises the structure, when working in wireframe, and it looks more like an idea, structure or blue print for the finished piece, and I think that the reason they are seen as pioneers in the music industry, is because of the ideas they had, not just the finished music.
Anyway, once we had settled on the mesh, we then thought that a gold leaf was really the only option for material finish, for obvious reasons.
Q: How was it for you working with Saville and Howard Wakefield?
A: There is always a risk when you get the opportunity to work with people you have grown up admiring, that you can be totally let down, and left with your opinion of somebody, shattered. However, I can thankfully say that the opposite is true of Saville, and my opinion of him has risen even further since starting to work together.
Sometimes people with that much more experience can be patronising, or act like you couldn't possibly tell them anything they don't already know, but contrary to this Peter is very open, considerate, and a pleasure to work with.
In fact, there have been phone calls where I have called to discuss an aspect of a current project, and it can end up as a 45 minute chat about something totally unrelated, but equally interesting or insightful, so that the call ends, and I realise we never got round talking about what I had called for.
After the conversations we have had, I would urge people to go back and look more closely at his past works, because often there are a lot more aspects to what you are looking at, than would be instantly apparent. There are also endless stories about the background, and situations surrounding his work, some of which can be heard when you listen to his discussion with Tony Wilson about his work for Factory, in the extras on the '24 Hour Party People' DVD, and anybody who is interested in the background of the visual identity of Factory, should definitely check it out. There is a lot more to his work than many would realise, and I think this is largely why he is now regarded as an artist as much as a graphic designer.
Howard is also a big part of what Peter Saville Associates is about, and although I haven't worked with him as much, I understand the important role he plays, and he too is also an extremely nice guy to work with.
They are essentially into ideas, and exploring where you can go to next, without any of the bullshit and pretension, which is just the way I like it.
Q: What are your favourite masterpieces by Saville? Is he an influence on your other work?
A: It is difficult to single out particular pieces of work, but I would be lying if I said that Unknown Pleasures wasn't a favourite, as was the 12" cover to Atmosphere. Power, Corruption And Lies is another, but mainly because of the story behind it, as well as Blue Monday 12" for the same reason. True Faith, is also iconic, and I guess exploring that cover so deeply, has lead to it taking on even greater meaning for myself.
I also love the 'Waste' artwork he has done recently, and the 'Taxi' soundgraph he did in 2000. In fact the more I think about it, the more pieces come to mind, so I could end up going on, and on.
When you ask if he has been an influence, I think it would be impossible to look closely at his work and not be influenced, but to actually be involved with the creative process itself, has just lead to an even greater appreciation. The most influential aspect is probably his approach, rather than specific works, as I share a similar outlook, and it is satisfying to see that being recognised.
Q: Can you tell something about the choice of the font (lettering was made by Paul Barnes, who did the font for the cover of Bjork's Pagan Poetry and co-designed the font for The Guardian), which seems a return to a more innovative attitude?
A: The rest of the graphic design and layout, was really down to Peter, Howard, and the others at Saville Associates, so I didn't have any involvement in the choice of font etc, but I know that Substance, as another compilation, was a reference point, although I like the font, as it puts a different slant on things.
Some have criticised the graphics for Singles, but personally I like the approach (not just because we worked on it), because lets face it, the content offers nothing new, so it is appropriate that the artwork is retrospective as well, but with enough differences to show that it is a new way of presenting the New Order history.
I think if the graphics had been too much of a departure from what the Saville / New Order partnership had produced in the past, that it would have been visually misleading.
Q: Can you tell us about your other design activity in the Morph partnership with Ben Cox?
A: My design partner Ben Cox, and myself met at University, and decided that the only way to have the creative freedom to explore the design industry in the way we wanted, was to set up a partnership ourselves, which we did in 1999. Since then we have been lucky enough to work in many different areas, with many great names, and the variation in subject matter, is something that really interests us.
Although I trained initially in fine art, it was furniture and product design, which I chose to specialise in at University, but I always missed the artwork side of things, so it means a lot that I am now able get back in touch with that aspect, through the work with graphic designers. To be honest it sounds really complicated, when I try and explain exactly what it is we are about, and the best way to understand would be to take a look at out website www.morphuk.com, as that does it visually, but I guess it comes down to us being into creative ideas, and their application in all kinds of different disciplines.
Q: You worked for top fashion brands like Prada and Mandarina Duck. What did you do for them?
A: The work we did for Prada and Mandarina Duck was a few years ago now, and it was more about working with other designers on their own ideas, but we helped in the development side of things.
We have more recently worked with Marc Jacobs and Louis Vuitton, in a similar way, whereby we work alongside their in-house designers, to help on the development product ranges etc, based on their brief.
The fashion industry is a really great area to work in, as they have the opportunity to work to material and quality levels that you just don't generally get to look at, so you can be more indulgent, and work on designs that would otherwise never be able to happen because of manufacturing costs etc.
Q: What did you do on the new Sky logo?
A: The new Sky logo was done in conjunction with another graphic design company called VentureThree, who had the idea to produce the logo so that it looked like glass.
Due to the limitations of the normal graphic tools such as Photoshop and Illustrator, they needed us to 3D model the text, and render it in a glass material, so that it looked like it had physically been made.
This was one of the projects we worked on which meant there was less creative input from ourselves, as the idea had already been formulated, and it was simply a case of needing it realised by us.
Q: Are you a fan of New Order? What other music do you enjoy?
A: I am certainly a fan of New Order, although that was born out of an initial love for Joy Division, but I think they both go hand in hand. After all it was because ultimately I am a fan, that I was inspired to re-work Unknown Pleasures in the first place.
As for other bands, well where do I start?! I am a massive music fan full stop, and I guess the Indie scene has always been closest to my heart, although there is a lot of electronica, rock, and hip-hop which I really like, so I guess you could say if it is alternative and experimental, I am interested. Off the top of my head I would say the following are getting a lot of play these days:
Interpol - a great band that have used the inspiration of Joy Division better than anybody, and having seen them live, I would have to say they are one of the best bands around, and everything they have done needs to be heard. Both their albums are nothing short of perfect.
Boards Of Canada - Without a doubt the best electronic crossover bands there has ever been, and their new album The Campfire Headphase, which goes back to the approach they had for Music Has The Right To Children, is fucking great.
Motorhead - See them live, and you will understand why these guys are the undisputed kings of rock music.
Arcade Fire - A new band from Montreal, who I saw play having never heard of them, and was just totally sucked in. Great eclectic sound, with shades of Bowie, and Talking Heads. Also check out their mates Wolf Parade, who have a similar sound.
Ian Brown - Proof that there is life after the Stone Roses.
Grandaddy - they really are something particularly special!
Beta Band - it was a real shame they split up.
The Pixies - Godfathers of indie rock, seen them live so many times live I have lost count, and they never disappoint.
Doves - Everything they do turns to gold.
Radiohead and Supergrass - I grew up in the same town, and they have been a big part of the music I listen to.
Aphex Twin - another godfather of electronica.
White Stripes - pure creative energy.
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